New Supra wont have Manual BOOHOOHOOoo

"Hans Kuiper" (hanschepuve)
03/07/2018 at 09:22 • Filed to: None

>New supra wont come with manual transmission

>New Supra will be boring ass, dual clutch transmission

>BMW Engine, no tunability no mighty days of the 2JZ

>New supra sucks

Poor GTR owners who cant have fun with their cars and are bored af with their untunable cars :(

>Bbbbut the its a bmw engine!! its not a toyota so it wont be fun to tune.

poor B58 owners that cant do any upgrades, only if there was aftermarket research for these engines..

The new supra will come with an inline 6 with an already kind of developed aftermarket support, whats not to love smh?

DISCUSSION (37)

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:34

Meh.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:37

I straight up would have put my money where my mouth is and bought a manual Supra in 2-3 years. I already have a Toyota/Lexus Sports car with 4 doors and a naturally aspirated V8. I can’t justify buying a less practical slower new car that still has an auto.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:41

No Manual? Now I’m definitely not going to buy one.

Discerning > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:41

BMW engines have been tune-able for a while. It’s actually Toyota products that have been exceptionally hard to tune for the last 10 years.

Also, the Z4/Supra will have a B58 (as you mentioned), but you showed a picture for a turbo for an F87 M2, which uses an N55.

I R Cunfuzed

The B58 is a pretty decent engine and I thought it was a well known commodity in the car world already. Last time I checked, they had fueling issues above a certain threshold, but I imagine someone has sorted that out by now.

DutchieDC2R > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:44

I dont get this post. Are you bashing the new Supra or bashing the bashers? Or is it a combination of it all?

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:44

the only reason they put an automatic in was to eke out that extra mile per gallon or two on the synthetic tests

Montalvo > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:48

Here’s my take on the car, it will sell well as a BMW. As a Supra it’ll be a big dissapointment. The Toyota version needs to have a manual option even if it’s a low take rate.

Hans Kuiper > Discerning
03/07/2018 at 09:48

Oh sorry, its in the M240, not the M2!

But yes as you pointed out, it might have some tuning issues that will probably be sorted by the time it arrives the market.

which gives to my point of a great starting point for aftermarket support.

Hans Kuiper > DutchieDC2R
03/07/2018 at 09:50

Bashing the bashers!

I for one thing the concept shown yesterday looks quite a lot like the MKIV Supra that everybody loves, and mechanically I think its shaping up greatly.

Dont get the no manual/bmw engine haters

Hans Kuiper > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
03/07/2018 at 09:53

Great for you, specially for supporting the Manual sport car market.

Also, I share your opinion that it doesnt make any sense for you to buy the new supra seeing what you already own.

Im basically bashing all the keyboard warriors that are already shaming the thing lol

Wheelerguy > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:54

Nissan knew the R35 was tuneable. That’s my take. Nissan would’ve sealed this engine, but they knew that a massive aftermarket would rise from the GT-R community, and so just kind of said it’s untuneable to challenge all these shops.

The same works at around a similar level with the BRZ/86. Deliberately underpowered, deliberately narrow, so that it can be both a normies-tier sports car and a platform where the craziest kit will be born.

And with a 450hp car, the floor is raised. The racing concept is less a tease, more like a template. Rocket Bunny’s probably drawing the kit right now.

Hans Kuiper > HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
03/07/2018 at 09:54

Yawn.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:54

I don’t even care that it has a BMW based engine because I know Toyota won’t put up with certain BMW problems but the no manual thing is a big issue for me.

Hans Kuiper > winterlegacy, here 'till the end
03/07/2018 at 09:55

Or maybe its for better acceleration, consumption and electronic controls.

Also, I figure the target buyer prefers an advanced automatic transmission too.

duurtlang > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 09:56

Dont get the no manual/bmw engine haters

For many people interested in sportscars, a sportscar not having a manual is a deal breaker. I know it would be for me. You don’t have to agree with that preference, but the fact that many would strongly prefer one with a manual was something to be expected.

Hans Kuiper > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
03/07/2018 at 09:56

Welp, a 2020 Supra would be a downgrade for someone who owns Vibranium powered vehicles anyway haha

Hans Kuiper > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
03/07/2018 at 09:59

Yeah, I get you, we can hope for an eventual manual version a la Porsche GT3 if the thing sells well.

veryloud435iwouldn'thaveitanyotherway > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:00

I love my ZF transmission. It’s so fast and can be driven just like a manual. The only feature it doesn’t have is dropping the clutch. But it will built pressure before launch. I can shift any gear I want at anytime, all the way down to first with no lock outs. The bonus is automatic mode when I’m tired of shifting.

The engine is completely tuneable. I’ve tuned and modified mine heavily and there is lots more to go.

I dunno. A manual is just not a deal breaker like it used to be. IMO and the right automatic is no longer a “slush box”

Hans Kuiper > duurtlang
03/07/2018 at 10:01

Yeah, there are lots of people that plan to use this thing as a toy only, which is the perfect scenario for a manual transmission, but on the other hand, Im pretty sure it will be a fun car with loads of tuning opportunities.

Textured Soy Protein > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:01

I get the rationale but its Z4 sibling will offer a manual.

Kinja'd!!!

Discerning > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:02

I wouldn’t be too worried if I were in the market for a new Supra.

If the Toyota 86 is any indication, Toyota will defer to the engine builder for engine and transmission electronics. It makes sense anyway for Toyota since it isn’t their engine.

I am legitimately bummed that they dropped the manual (most likely). I have been assured by my significant other that I can get another toy once we buy a new house. Right now I’m leaning very heavy towards a new Z51 or GS in 2LT trim and I imagine the Supra will cost less than a 2LT GS.

I replaced my C5Z with a sedan in the summer and the BIGGEST thing I miss is the 6 speed. Not sure I would settle for a DCT with the next thing.

Hans Kuiper > Wheelerguy
03/07/2018 at 10:03

Thats my take, the BMW engine will surely have a great aftermarket by the time this thing goes on sale, and Im pretty sure toyota could come up with a great/reliable transmission for this thing.

And, if BMW sport cars and the GT86 is something to go by, Im betting all in that this thing will have great handling.

Plus, I think it looks like an evolution of the beloved MKIV, which to my eyes is great.

Hans Kuiper > Textured Soy Protein
03/07/2018 at 10:06

LOL! got me with that one.

But hey, if the Z4 will come with a manual I definitely see a market for Transmission swaps, or the eventual manual trim.

nermal > veryloud435iwouldn'thaveitanyotherway
03/07/2018 at 10:07

I think this is the correct take - The ZF 8spd, tuned properly, can give both better performance when you want to go fast, and lazy one-foot driving when you just want to cruise. I’d put VW’s DSG in the same category.

On a “luxury sport” car that will list for $75k+, auto-only is the correct choice for the manufacturer. On the flip side, a hot hatch or muscle car that doesn’t have a proper manual is a crime against humanity.

Hans Kuiper > Montalvo
03/07/2018 at 10:09

I dont see it that way, but hey, time will tell.

The dissapointment part I dont get it tho, how can it be a great BMW but a shitty Supra, If I remember right, when the Supra was alive, the BMW cars had the better handling.

Hans Kuiper > Discerning
03/07/2018 at 10:11

I get you, but you are free to take a test drive in one and judge.

For me, I was a detractor of non manual sport cars until I tested a GTR and the M4.

I think you kind of get best of both worlds, except for the heal toe and powershift things.

Milky > Textured Soy Protein
03/07/2018 at 10:16

This is my problem with it. The platform/drivetrain has already been developed. Why wouldn’t you offer it?

Kinja'd!!!

Discerning > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:17

I’ve driven an M4 and a GTR. The M4's transmission was impressive and it shifted HARD. Like bash you in the head hard. It was actually shocking how fast and hard it shifted the first time I went WOT. It also responded as quickly as my fingertips could brush against the paddles. The GTR’s transmission wasn’t as impressive, but it was still better than most other gearboxes I’ve experienced.

From a technological and speed standpoint, even a toque converter automatic is going to outperform a manual. There’s simply no competition.

That said, I enjoy driving a manual and I if I had splurged on an M4, I would have gotten the 6 speed (even though the 6 speed was kinda garbage compared to a TR-6060 unit in a C6). I’m not even the best manual driver and I’ve flubbed my fair share of heel-toe downshifts at the track. But I enjoy the control I guess. I like clutch kicking, heel-toeing, and nailing a good hard up-shift.

I wouldn’t say no to a DCT or auto, or I wouldn’t have bought my current car and i would have held out for a 340i with a stick. But given the choice (with both options being equally attainable/available) I would go with the stick.

Hans Kuiper > Discerning
03/07/2018 at 10:26

You are totally right about the manual being more engaging on track tho, but basically my point was to all these haters that were expecting an MKIV Supra.

which this succesor looks to be living up to the hype actually in regards of style and tunability

Discerning > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:31

I follow you and I find the naysayers funny as well. People will find any reason to pick apart an upcoming or new car. Even the smallest things seem to get people worked up. I still remember how upset corvette fans were that the C7's taillights apparently looked similar to the then-new Camaro and that it didn’t have circular lenses. It’s ridiculous.

DCT-only would likely have a very marginal impact on sales and the bottom line would likely be better with the one transmission than to attract a few more sales by having another option and increasing production and R&D costs.

Montalvo > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:35

Because as a new BMW Z car it was expected to get an automatic and follow the same conventions as the other BMWs in the lineup. The Supra on the other hand will be looked at as something that should steeped in the essence of what the Supra’s ultimate form was (Straight six, preferably turbocharged and a 5/6 speed manual transmission). Remember I never said it was going to be a bad car I just said that it would be a dissapointing Supra. It’s a car that people really look upon with rose colored glasses and if it strays from that vision it will get lambasted.

AestheticsInMotion > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:36

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a manual transmission. Especially in a car that is being marketed as a “fun, enthusiast” car. Sure it’s not as fast when driven 10/10 on a track, but it’s a huge deal breaker for a lot of people who are more interested in the experience than in absolute speed. I was hoping this would be another possible next car, but without the manual it’s just another *fast car*. Snooze. Those are a dime a dozen today. I’m still very much excited to see the Supra, just seems like an incredibly strange choice to not offer a manual that’s already been developed for the engine, on the successor to the car that defined the tuner age, and was the poster child for car enthusiasm for such a long time.

*Goes back to looking at M2's and NSX’s*

SmugAardvark > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 10:38

I’ll always prefer a manual transmission, but I get how far the technology has come to make an automatic quicker and more efficient than even the best human driver.

I may not love it, but I can accept it. Either way, I have no doubts that the new Supra will be a blast to drive.

camarov6rs > Montalvo
03/07/2018 at 10:53

I think Toyota isn’t going to position this car right. It’ll be too close to the entry price of the BMW, it won’t be as “fun” as it should and by the time it hits the streets whatever it competes with will be entering a new generation or be very close to a new generation. BTW what does this compete with, besides it’s sister car?

interstate366, now In The Industry > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 11:05

I think they will offer a limited-run manual version at some point, maybe a GRMN-tuned one like they did the Mark X a couple years ago. They made 100 of those, and they’re the equivalent of $60,000 on the used market. For what is essentially an IS350.

kanadanmajava1 > Hans Kuiper
03/07/2018 at 11:33

There are still MkIV Supras on the road so why worry if new cars suck or have wrong equipment?

Hans Kuiper > AestheticsInMotion
03/07/2018 at 12:44

I´d argue that the tuner age was defined by civics lol

I get your point, experience over speed, but the thing is maybe if you look at it without rose tinted glasses, the Auto could be the best experience, as someone said in the comments new auto transmissions arent what they used to be, they shift hard and fast, hold power for a stupid quick aggressive launch and rev match while downshifting.

They offer about 75% the experience of a good manual with an extra 100% of the experience of a comfy and friendly auto.

And I know some people want the manual experience, but to me the transmission choice wont dictate the fun factor of a car.

Also the another fast car bit, I think its way more fun having too many fast cars with auto gearbox than just a couple with manual transmissions.

Just my opinion tho, hopefully it sells well and opens space for a manual equipped edition.